stuart: you're saying, oh, he left a deficit. it was congressional spending that led it a deficit. let's get back to the original argument. if you now, right now, lowered tax rates you would increase revenue to the treasury. >> you and i disagree on that. you and i disagree on that and i know my history and-- >> you think that by imposing higher tax rates, massive tax increase. >> no, no, not on everyone, not on everyone. stuart: tell me how you're going to get growth when you raise taxes by a trillion 6. go. >> are you talking about deficit reduction or growth. if you're talking about growth. stuart: growth in the economy. >> of course it's a combination of things and it's a matter of-- i believe na a bigger stimulus, for example. stuart: do you believe if we put this plan, the president's plan into practice now. >> i don't think the president's plan will be put into practice. stuart: do you think that we'd get 4 or 5% growth? >> i don't think it's a realistic plan, i said it from day one. stuart: and if we raise taxes, that's the heart of this thing, if we raise taxes do you thin